Monday, February 28, 2005

This is what happens in a war. This is why war should be a last resort.

This story highlights one of the reasons why the Invasion of Iraq was, and is, still wrong. This is why war should be used as a last resort. This is why all peaceful options are exhausted before there is a use of force.

War. Soldiers shoot at people. People get shot at.

The woman who was shot in the head by Australian Soldiers and her/a child who was wounded by the broken (presumably) windscreen is in an American military hospital in Baghdad's Green Zone, where she is in a serious condition.

The whole incident is part of war. We are in a war in Iraq. Women, children, soldiers will get hurt, many will die. Some are co-lateral damage some are not.
Most will suffer from psychological trauma.

Mind, HoWARd is cool with this. He is sending 450 more troops into this war and highlighting the legitimate, war-like, dangerous aspect of this Invasion is useful to him. The heat is rising on the question of economic benefit to Australia for this increase in troops and HoWARd does not like answering questions about his lies.

Reduce the PTSD now.
Bring them home.


Blogger Ron said...

Did the commander ever think that the Australian public would have any doubts a preliminary inquiry (and any subsequent one) by the military would find the troops' actions justified?

Why bother wasting the time. HoWARd would find some wormy excuse anyway.

12:41 pm  
Blogger Susoz said...

We are heading down the road where those of us who criticise the war and all that happens in its name are going to be accused of being disloyal to 'our' troops, unpatriotic etc.

3:57 pm  
Blogger suki said...

Quite so susoz.
I am fully expecting to be called a Saddam lover or some such nonsense again.

The PTSD data for the military is beyond questioning and I guess my point is, and always will be,
"Australia is this war worth it?"

4:58 pm  
Blogger Gerry said...

Bring all the troops home now. And what happens to Iraq? Aw fuck 'em. We don't really care about the Iraqis...

Sorry, Suki, but until someone gives me answers to the bigger picture, I'm not going to kneejerk about one unfortunate fuckup. Did I hear you going berzerk every time an insurgent blows himself up and kills more civillians than inteded targets?

Sorry, but I'm getting very sensitive to the onesidedness of the left's (and the right's) sense of injustice. I was there myself till I had a long hard look at my self-righteous, partisan wankery.

I'll ask the question again (in case someone gives me an answer that makes sense to me): What happens to the Iraqi people if all the troops leave now? What's the plan?

6:48 pm  
Blogger Gerry said...

And now to respond to the PTSD issue and Leunig's cartoon. It's hearwrenching and touches me personally deeper than most people will ever understand, but I believe we must find a way out this best for the Iraqi people AND our own military. I want to see a win-win outcome to this awful, inhumane mess.

6:59 pm  
Blogger suki said...

I have been against this war since I could smell it coming around the middle of 2002. I gathered with 349,999 others in Sydney in March 2003, with my NO HoWARd sign.

Read my archives. I have not changed my position. I regularly post on the horror of this war (No WMD's found, American death toll 1000+, Iraqi civilian death toll at least 18,000. Mission accomplished arrogance etc.) to advance my beliefs. I am looking for this nation's tipping point, the precipice where it says enough!How many dead Iraqis will it take before we listen to their "occupation is not liberation" message?

How can we justify such paternalism and colonialism on an ancient and proud culture?

How many rotations can our very small military sustain?

How much difference does our force of 750 troops actually make to the overall effort?

How many children will we accept will have disrupted attachment to their military parent?

How many couple relationships will we be happy to impair?

How many mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, friends, should have sleepless, anxious, can't-watch-the-news nights?

How much combat related PTSD will Australian society support? Will we abandon our returned soldiers as did the Americans with their Vietnam vets?

If this is about handing back the country better than we found it, then what part of Australia's restoration strategy requires supporting Japanese engineers? Will we leave when they leave? Is that all that needs to done? Minister Hill is on record as saying that if Australia were not sending troops then Britain would have supplied more.

What is our exit strategy? CDF says in one year from now we will be done. What takes one year?

Gerry, I respect the position you hold, however, mine remains, 'Never should have gone into Iraq with Bush and Co. nor be supportive of a pre-emptive strike on a sovereign nation.'

With every day after that -
'bring them home,'
with every day after that -
'is this enough?'
Finally, and continually -
'if not now, when?'

Our military should not be put in harm's way unless absolutely necessary - and a war in Iraq was never necessary.

8:22 pm  
Blogger Gerry said...

I get that you're not interested in the debate I'm trying to get up and running, Suki. I accept that, so I'll bid you adieu, ciao, auf wiedersehen, au revoir, hasta la vista, and seeya later... :-)

9:27 pm  
Blogger weezil said...

Gerry, I disagree that Suki is disinterested in your query. I'm confident she may not have been overfond of your 3 strawmen leading the query, though. Being accusatory when you really don't know who you are addressing won't get the sort of cooperation and introspection I think you were after.

Nonetheless, I think you asked her what she thought will happen to the Iraqi people after the US & other troop departures. You also want to see a dignified withdrawal from Iraq, something the yanks didn't quite accomplish in Vietnam.

Given the unwarranted and illegal nature of the US invasion of Iraq, I don't think you're going to get the happy ending you want. The resentment for this foolish military decision on the part of the neo-cons in Washington will last for the next 100+ years.

When (if?) US troops pull out, the cockroaches are really going to come out of the woodwork in Iraq, mark my words. The violence on the streets will be infintiely worse.

Why did Shrub take the US into Iraq? Osama wasn't there. The attack on Afghanistan was half-assed and now the Taliban are freely roaming the countryside, while Mayor Karzai looks on helplessly from Kabul.

Shrub either had some mad plan to get the fella who tried to 'kill his daddy' or to control Iraqi oil. Given Shrub is well connected in oil and big finance, I don't think chasing down Saddam for whatever he thought of GHW Bush was any part of the motivation.

The only win-win is for the oil companies and the military inductrial supply complex.

Suki did in fact address your proposition about an exit strategy. However, I wouldn't expect her to waver on her principles of why she believes as she does. You might have decided you were a bit of a wanker and changed tack, but Suki is still quite confident of her beliefs.

And I do believe she's right.

10:06 pm  
Blogger Gerry said...

weezil, you're more than welcome argue the point with me on my blog, but I'll not continue to post comments in this thread here as I think my style is too
"offensive". Suki will tell you PTSD can do that to a person.

Fuck I wish just one of you had ever seen first hand what war can do before you pontiifcate from the pages of your favourite text books.

I'm outa here!

10:51 pm  
Blogger bogan-A said...


I'm in two minds about immediate withdrawal as well, despite being strongly anti war.

However I do strongly feel that it was a US stuff-up, which we entered out of a sense of obligation to the US and our alliance, which the US alone has the responsibility to fix. No, I don't think everyone should pull out immediately- I think the US should continue to wear the costs of the mess they made, and should also pump large amounts of cash into the nascent democracy.

There is something deeply wrong with the US approach of cajoling us into a war, then wanting us to get in deeper as it goes down the unpleasant and violent path so many of us predicted.

5:40 pm  
Blogger Gerry said...

Suki, I apologise for any offence/insult I have caused you. I won't ask you to forgive me because if roles were reversed, I probably wouldn't either.

11:49 pm  
Blogger suki said...

Gerry welcome back!

8:08 am  
Blogger Gerry said...

Big cyberhug, Suki. There should be an emoticon for cyberhugs. Becareful how you pronounce cyberhug or it might sound like cyber rug. I wouldn't know what to do with a cyber rug... Enough of this stream-of-consciousness shit.

8:23 am  
Blogger suki said...

Is a cyber-rug perhaps a virtual toupee for the less hirsute amoung us?

8:53 am  
Blogger bogan-A said...

Please add to my gravatar!

4:04 pm  
Blogger weezil said...

Martin, I don't think Blogger commenting supports Gravatars yet.

Blogger does show the image which is included with a profile you have made, though.


6:59 pm  
Blogger Gerry said...

Suki, cyber rugs, virtual toupees. Love it. But I only just saw this comment on my way through.

I keep forgetting where I've left comments and therefore I often fail to respond to replies thereto. Often to the relief of the blog-owner. :-)

My point? Well, I really like the setup at Phil Gomes's blog, Citystate. Here you can select an option to be notified by email of further comments in a particular thread.

Then again I'm a neanderthal so maybe there's things I don't understand (like RSS and trackback, etc) ans so the rest of the blogosphere is happily aware of where they've left comments and how to keep up with those threads...

I'll get out of your way now...

7:45 pm  

Post a Comment

<< Home